krunchie
09-05-2007, 03:34 PM
Do not give too much credibility to people who do not recognise that their own knowledge is limited.....especially when they are giving you advice about your health !!!
I am staggered by the attitude and arrogance of some doctors and physiotherapists (and even professional national sports team medical advisors - for example look at the reaction by the US Ski Team medics when Bode Miller, Eric Schlopy, Bryon Friedman all had prolotherapy and rave about it's success !) who dismiss certain treatments and ideas simply because they do not know anything about them. The one's I am thinking about use their own lack of knowledge as an argument as to why something cannot possibly exist or work. They know who they are, don' they ??
I find their arrogance mind boggling - their arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance - beware !
I am particularly referring to conversations I have had about the treatment called Prolotherapy or Sclerosant therapy.
I have spent 3 years researching the treatment and during that time have been treated with astounding and rapid success - and I speak from experience of talking with many medically qualified people and patients ......but I know I can only be sure of what I have experienced..not what I have been told, read...or not read for that matter !
In my experience the most arrogant and dismissive "qualified" people with whom I have had conversations have been General Practitioners and Physiotherapists - these are people who hold a position of respect in society and to whom people look to for advice about their health. Ironically, they are the "medical" staff who require and go through a much shorter training than the doctors that I know who administer prolotherapy. They have considerably less (if any at all) experience in diagnosing and treating musculo-skeletal issues. Many GP's spend most of their time dealing with headaches, earaches, flu, period pains, depression, pregnant 15 year olds etc etc etc...they probably get to see an MRI scan once a year...if at all...and may not have a clue what they are even looking at - some admit this of course but many do not !
So when a physio (with their 2-4 yrs training under their belt) or a GP (with their 5-6 year training) , tells you that something is impossible just because they have not been taught about it (or because no drug company has sponsored it !!!)..question why some orthopaedic surgeons - who have taken possibly 14 years to get to the point where they can start to practice independently - who have had the same training as the GPs and physios at the beginning of their career, then studied much further for much longer, then specialised and focused in particular injuries and conditions FULL TIME...who then also often go on to study and qualify as Osteopaths....a further 4-5 years ( so now we have approximately 20 years of study and hands on experience in specific medicine and LIFE)...just ask yourself who is likely to have the greater knowledge...and strangely, the people to which I am now referring are open minded and curious.
Maybe the above-mentioned arrogant sceptics do not know that (and I quote..) "the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine
AAOM) promotes Orthopaedic Medicine by teaching doctors integrative diagnosis techniques and comprehensive/ integrative nonsurgical treatment methods including proliferant injections (prolotherapy), steroid injections, fluoroscopic spinal interventions, osteopathic manual medicine, therapeutic exercise and interventions with various pharmaceuticals/nutriceuticals/ herbal/ homeopathic based treatments."......well maybe these sceptical GPs and physios should be questioning why they have not read about it..why they have not informed themselves of what treatments are successful at treating their potential patients...why they have NOT
kept up with their own profession...mmm ??? Think about it !
The problem in finding a prolotherapist is that there are very very few of them. This is because the skill set and legal qualification required is much greater than just becoming a "doctor" or just an "osteopath" and certainly much greater than just a "physiotherapist"....after all...on paper...a physiotherapist when compared to the doctors that I know who perform prolotherapy..is like comparing the mechanic at your local
Ford garage with Ernst Fuhrmann, the man who designed the incredible, world beating Porsche type 547, 4 cam roller bearing engine for the Porsche 550 Spyder in 1954 - you get my point ??? One knows what goes on..the other needs to be told what to change and how !!
Okay - I know you are not all like that...and apologise to those who are not but choose to be offended......but I bet you know many who are !!
To be a good prolotherapist you need to specialise in musculo skeletal issues (so you are probably an osteopath - incidentally prolotherapy was part of the osteopaths training until the 1960's when the law changed so you then had to be a qualified medical doctor to treat people with the long needles used in prolo - so it was dropped from osteo training because they would never be allowed to do it unless they went on to become a doctor..another 5-6 years training...""oh oh..long time before earning any money..I will stick with just being an osteopath thanks")...so in the UK at least, you really have to be a medical doctor legally and in order to have sufficient knowledge in musculo skeletal issues...an osteopath too....this is before you really get any real life hands on experience...at the minimum.
Then to be any good.....you still have to have a great deal of experience even to accurately diagnose the problems...most ligament and tendon issues are not visible even on MRI (in fact especially on an MRI !!!)
You also need to be very sensitive with your hands and have natural skill and a steady hand....very steady hand...and be very confident...have you seen the needles and where they go ?????? Wow ! I have, I felt them, in my case they didn't hurt because I was treated by someone who had been doing this non stop for 35 years, a qualified doctor who then qualified as an osteopath having been treated by one and amazed by the result, then was treated by prolotherapist and further amazed by the result (and remains totally cured of the problem 35 years after the treatment !) - and so studied that technique too.This man has been the president of the British Osteopathic association and an examiner at London College of Osteopathic medicine.
Now..there are at least 2 orthopaedic surgeons that I have spoken with...remember they require much longer training than even my doctor !!...who treat with prolotherapy in place of surgery in many cases, they still research prolotherapy and they TEACH IT !! These surgeons practice at the ROYAL ORTHOPAEDIC HOSPITAL in the UK.....and still I hear some GP s or physio therapists say..."Prolotherapy cannot work because I haven't read about it, I haven't been taught about it so it must be rubbish...." Ie...they know NOTHING about it...but they insist that their own lack of knowledge proves that something doesn't exist !!
Well....what would you think of me if you asked me what I thought about your favourite book and I said - I haven't read it, I don't know anything about it - it's rubbish - would you consider me very credible ?
If anyone is interested I will be happy to tell them my case - and all the very expensive "specialists" I went to see - none of whom could fix me..or in many cases couldn't even see anything wrong despite MRI etc and them being orthopaedic trauma specialists in their own right..but had no knowledge whatsoever of prolotherapy - the treatment that has fully repaired my problem ( these qualified traumatologists and orthopaedic surgeons were very interested to read the information I had discovered and asked me to return to their clinic in Spain after my treatment in the UK to tell them about it - of course I did and they are now looking into it in detail).
I would love to share that story with any of you !
Do your own research - do not believe the first thing you read - do not believe the 100th thing you read - do your own research - talk to as many people as you can - find people with experience not uninformed opinions - find people who have had it and done it - then decide what to do.
Remember when you read an article and it says "experts say this , experts say that "...look up the definition of an expert - my friends from Argentina define an expert as somebody from the next town !!!!!
There is no doubt whatsoever that....
if you have an accurate diagnosis
if the injury is appropriate for prolotherapy - many are !!
if administered by a skilled and experienced therapist who uses the correct solution and gives enoguh treatments spread over the optimum timescale
if the above situation applies...there is no doubt that prolotherapy is a natural, harmless complete and permament cure that in many cases leave the patient even stronger and mechanically more stable than before their injury.
It is such a shame that there are so few practitioners because 90% of people suffering today with arthritis and arthrosis pain, damaged discs and cartilage, damaged or just old, worn and loose ligaments could have their pain eliminated permanently - and save the NHS enormous amounts of money - the treatment requires skill and training but the material to do it costs nothing...a syringe, needle and simple solution of sugar, water and antisceptic..it takes half an hour and you just walk straight out...no hospital time !!
I am staggered by the attitude and arrogance of some doctors and physiotherapists (and even professional national sports team medical advisors - for example look at the reaction by the US Ski Team medics when Bode Miller, Eric Schlopy, Bryon Friedman all had prolotherapy and rave about it's success !) who dismiss certain treatments and ideas simply because they do not know anything about them. The one's I am thinking about use their own lack of knowledge as an argument as to why something cannot possibly exist or work. They know who they are, don' they ??
I find their arrogance mind boggling - their arrogance is only exceeded by their ignorance - beware !
I am particularly referring to conversations I have had about the treatment called Prolotherapy or Sclerosant therapy.
I have spent 3 years researching the treatment and during that time have been treated with astounding and rapid success - and I speak from experience of talking with many medically qualified people and patients ......but I know I can only be sure of what I have experienced..not what I have been told, read...or not read for that matter !
In my experience the most arrogant and dismissive "qualified" people with whom I have had conversations have been General Practitioners and Physiotherapists - these are people who hold a position of respect in society and to whom people look to for advice about their health. Ironically, they are the "medical" staff who require and go through a much shorter training than the doctors that I know who administer prolotherapy. They have considerably less (if any at all) experience in diagnosing and treating musculo-skeletal issues. Many GP's spend most of their time dealing with headaches, earaches, flu, period pains, depression, pregnant 15 year olds etc etc etc...they probably get to see an MRI scan once a year...if at all...and may not have a clue what they are even looking at - some admit this of course but many do not !
So when a physio (with their 2-4 yrs training under their belt) or a GP (with their 5-6 year training) , tells you that something is impossible just because they have not been taught about it (or because no drug company has sponsored it !!!)..question why some orthopaedic surgeons - who have taken possibly 14 years to get to the point where they can start to practice independently - who have had the same training as the GPs and physios at the beginning of their career, then studied much further for much longer, then specialised and focused in particular injuries and conditions FULL TIME...who then also often go on to study and qualify as Osteopaths....a further 4-5 years ( so now we have approximately 20 years of study and hands on experience in specific medicine and LIFE)...just ask yourself who is likely to have the greater knowledge...and strangely, the people to which I am now referring are open minded and curious.
Maybe the above-mentioned arrogant sceptics do not know that (and I quote..) "the American Association of Orthopedic Medicine
AAOM) promotes Orthopaedic Medicine by teaching doctors integrative diagnosis techniques and comprehensive/ integrative nonsurgical treatment methods including proliferant injections (prolotherapy), steroid injections, fluoroscopic spinal interventions, osteopathic manual medicine, therapeutic exercise and interventions with various pharmaceuticals/nutriceuticals/ herbal/ homeopathic based treatments."......well maybe these sceptical GPs and physios should be questioning why they have not read about it..why they have not informed themselves of what treatments are successful at treating their potential patients...why they have NOT
kept up with their own profession...mmm ??? Think about it !
The problem in finding a prolotherapist is that there are very very few of them. This is because the skill set and legal qualification required is much greater than just becoming a "doctor" or just an "osteopath" and certainly much greater than just a "physiotherapist"....after all...on paper...a physiotherapist when compared to the doctors that I know who perform prolotherapy..is like comparing the mechanic at your local
Ford garage with Ernst Fuhrmann, the man who designed the incredible, world beating Porsche type 547, 4 cam roller bearing engine for the Porsche 550 Spyder in 1954 - you get my point ??? One knows what goes on..the other needs to be told what to change and how !!
Okay - I know you are not all like that...and apologise to those who are not but choose to be offended......but I bet you know many who are !!
To be a good prolotherapist you need to specialise in musculo skeletal issues (so you are probably an osteopath - incidentally prolotherapy was part of the osteopaths training until the 1960's when the law changed so you then had to be a qualified medical doctor to treat people with the long needles used in prolo - so it was dropped from osteo training because they would never be allowed to do it unless they went on to become a doctor..another 5-6 years training...""oh oh..long time before earning any money..I will stick with just being an osteopath thanks")...so in the UK at least, you really have to be a medical doctor legally and in order to have sufficient knowledge in musculo skeletal issues...an osteopath too....this is before you really get any real life hands on experience...at the minimum.
Then to be any good.....you still have to have a great deal of experience even to accurately diagnose the problems...most ligament and tendon issues are not visible even on MRI (in fact especially on an MRI !!!)
You also need to be very sensitive with your hands and have natural skill and a steady hand....very steady hand...and be very confident...have you seen the needles and where they go ?????? Wow ! I have, I felt them, in my case they didn't hurt because I was treated by someone who had been doing this non stop for 35 years, a qualified doctor who then qualified as an osteopath having been treated by one and amazed by the result, then was treated by prolotherapist and further amazed by the result (and remains totally cured of the problem 35 years after the treatment !) - and so studied that technique too.This man has been the president of the British Osteopathic association and an examiner at London College of Osteopathic medicine.
Now..there are at least 2 orthopaedic surgeons that I have spoken with...remember they require much longer training than even my doctor !!...who treat with prolotherapy in place of surgery in many cases, they still research prolotherapy and they TEACH IT !! These surgeons practice at the ROYAL ORTHOPAEDIC HOSPITAL in the UK.....and still I hear some GP s or physio therapists say..."Prolotherapy cannot work because I haven't read about it, I haven't been taught about it so it must be rubbish...." Ie...they know NOTHING about it...but they insist that their own lack of knowledge proves that something doesn't exist !!
Well....what would you think of me if you asked me what I thought about your favourite book and I said - I haven't read it, I don't know anything about it - it's rubbish - would you consider me very credible ?
If anyone is interested I will be happy to tell them my case - and all the very expensive "specialists" I went to see - none of whom could fix me..or in many cases couldn't even see anything wrong despite MRI etc and them being orthopaedic trauma specialists in their own right..but had no knowledge whatsoever of prolotherapy - the treatment that has fully repaired my problem ( these qualified traumatologists and orthopaedic surgeons were very interested to read the information I had discovered and asked me to return to their clinic in Spain after my treatment in the UK to tell them about it - of course I did and they are now looking into it in detail).
I would love to share that story with any of you !
Do your own research - do not believe the first thing you read - do not believe the 100th thing you read - do your own research - talk to as many people as you can - find people with experience not uninformed opinions - find people who have had it and done it - then decide what to do.
Remember when you read an article and it says "experts say this , experts say that "...look up the definition of an expert - my friends from Argentina define an expert as somebody from the next town !!!!!
There is no doubt whatsoever that....
if you have an accurate diagnosis
if the injury is appropriate for prolotherapy - many are !!
if administered by a skilled and experienced therapist who uses the correct solution and gives enoguh treatments spread over the optimum timescale
if the above situation applies...there is no doubt that prolotherapy is a natural, harmless complete and permament cure that in many cases leave the patient even stronger and mechanically more stable than before their injury.
It is such a shame that there are so few practitioners because 90% of people suffering today with arthritis and arthrosis pain, damaged discs and cartilage, damaged or just old, worn and loose ligaments could have their pain eliminated permanently - and save the NHS enormous amounts of money - the treatment requires skill and training but the material to do it costs nothing...a syringe, needle and simple solution of sugar, water and antisceptic..it takes half an hour and you just walk straight out...no hospital time !!